This Golfing Life - Rosie Bailey and Karen Crum

Rosie Bailey and Karen Crum arrived at golf from almost opposite directions. Rosie was a reluctant junior who became an elite player, represented Scotland and earned a scholarship to the University of California, Berkeley, where the late Nancy McDaniel and Stanford coach Anne Walker became hugely influential figures in her life.

Karen grew up immersed in sport and music in Northern Ireland, played competitive football and didn't seriously discover golf until her thirties. Nine years later, she plays off seven and describes it as the greatest sport on earth.

Their paths crossed through Tuesday Links, the golf travel company Rosie founded with broadcaster Iona Stephen to create experiences designed around women rather than simply adapting the traditional golf trip. Karen joined its inaugural Scottish adventure as one of eight women aged between 36 and 70. What followed – culminating in an emotional walk up the 18th on the Old Course – reinforced something both women believe: golf's greatest gifts aren't necessarily found on the scorecard.

In this episode, Rosie and Karen join Dan to talk about golf as friendship, adventure, meditation and belonging; why walking alongside someone for four hours can create extraordinary conversations; and why golf still struggles to make women feel that the game belongs to them. They discuss motherhood and the women golf loses, badly designed clubhouses, women's golf clothing – and the scandal of inadequate pockets – and whether golf has a branding problem or a product problem. Plus, Karen discusses her other obsession, music, and her forthcoming album Fault Lines, recorded under the name Von Burl.